Also, when this is coming from leaders in a denominations and keeps coming from them then its a fairly good indication of where they’re taking a denomination as those who would oppose them are either powerless to stop them, or simply don’t exist.

When I was in the Stone-Cambell movement, it used to frustrate me when people would characterize the entire movement on the basis of those on the ultraconservative side. This is the same sadness and frustration.

I don’t particularly have any problem with Mark saying that pastors which have completely undermined the deity of Christ and allow the worship of other religions and gods will be facing the wrath of God.

Two things, Jared. One, you imply your denomination to be modern and progressive. How, I ask you, can you modernize or progress absolute truth (i.e. the words of Jesus, the statements of Paul)? Two, the activity of the Church in government is secondary to its internal integrity, something which I believe your church lacks. Your “tolerance” level is the real issue here.

And about sending pastors to hell. I think Mark’s point was that this denomination is starting down a slippery slope of shaky doctrine, and the only ultimate conclusion you can make is the one he made…view it as an attempt at a wake-up call.

I’d hope you’d know that is not what I’m saying. I’m sorry that this debate has devolved into nit-picking at one another’s words. It is hardly productive or Christian.

All I wanted to say was what I said in my main post, that it’s fine to disagree with other Christians, but to mischaracterize another group of Christians like that quote does, to declare that God is sending our pastors to hell, is a terrible thing for any Christian to do. It does not build up the body, and, as I said, it makes me sad.

It sounds like what you’re saying to me is that its ok to enforce the morality you want to enforce, but not for what other people want to enforce.

the religious right advocates using coercive force to get other people to follow their interpretation of judea-christian morals. however, morality (especially christian morality) is not something that can be forced upon people. we have laws to protect people, to establish order. that is all well and good, it is the place of the state to do this.

however, when christians want to take a moral issue like homosexuality and marriage and insist that the state have a “christian” view of marriage, when they want to limit the civic rights of homosexual couples, they are using government force to enforce their idealogy.

even when i thought homosexuality was a sin, i thought this was a foolish (and, perhaps, immoral) move on the church’s part

“we hold these truths to be self-evident…” is an ideology.

“We the people…” is an ideology.

Even the idea that murder is wrong iand should be punished is part of an ideology.

American Heritage Dictionary
i·de·ol·o·gy (d-l-j, d-) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of “ideology” [P]
n. pl. i·de·ol·o·gies

1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.