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	<title>Comments on: Retrospective Prayer</title>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Chad McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/378/comment-page-1#comment-8315</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Fixed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fixed</p>
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		<title>By: Chad McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/378/comment-page-1#comment-7727</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchvoices.com/archives/378#comment-7727</guid>
		<description>Ahhh, I see now. That last explanation was helpful (I didn't make the connection that the prayer for the new creation had not yet been answered). I'll look into the Daniel passage. Thanks Christian!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh, I see now. That last explanation was helpful (I didn&#8217;t make the connection that the prayer for the new creation had not yet been answered). I&#8217;ll look into the Daniel passage. Thanks Christian!</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Penrod</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/378/comment-page-1#comment-7726</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Penrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 15:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No.

Normally you might be correct in thinking you can use a verse in such a way.  We do it all the time.  We take a passage written in a certain time period by a certain kind of person to a certain group and apply the communicated truths to our lives.  This is valid and a major part of studying scripture.  But in this instance, the context of a given time demands that certain "truths" from said passage apply at the given time (i.e. after the new heavens and new earth have been created).  Now, as far as I know, that hasn't happened yet.

Maybe a better support (and one that would apply to the second way you gave to take a passage "out of context") would be Daniel 9:20-21 where Daniel emphasizes that while he was still in prayer, God sent an answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No.</p>
<p>Normally you might be correct in thinking you can use a verse in such a way.  We do it all the time.  We take a passage written in a certain time period by a certain kind of person to a certain group and apply the communicated truths to our lives.  This is valid and a major part of studying scripture.  But in this instance, the context of a given time demands that certain &#8220;truths&#8221; from said passage apply at the given time (i.e. after the new heavens and new earth have been created).  Now, as far as I know, that hasn&#8217;t happened yet.</p>
<p>Maybe a better support (and one that would apply to the second way you gave to take a passage &#8220;out of context&#8221;) would be Daniel 9:20-21 where Daniel emphasizes that while he was still in prayer, God sent an answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/378/comment-page-1#comment-7724</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Christian,

Thanks for checking that verse for me--you're right, it does appear in the context of God's promise to create the "new heaves and new earth," and nowhere did I mention that.

However, I'm not sure I have taken it out of context. Usually what we mean by taking a verse ‘out of context’ is using a single verse in such a way that its meaning is misappropriated without its preceding and following verses in mind. This is the bad, and unfortunately common, way. But there is another way of using verses ‘out of context’ that yet allows you to remain context-friendly. This would be using a single verse in such a way that its true contextual meaning is not violated without considering its preceding and following verses. Indeed, we do this all the time. It is the latter I believe I am doing—for it remains true, given what the verse said (apart from its context), that God has answered prayer before his people called upon him. It was that truth I was trying to extract from Is. 65:24. Now it would be out of context in the former sense if that truth didn’t remain once we consider the context you reminded me of. But it does, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christian,</p>
<p>Thanks for checking that verse for me&#8211;you&#8217;re right, it does appear in the context of God&#8217;s promise to create the &#8220;new heaves and new earth,&#8221; and nowhere did I mention that.</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m not sure I have taken it out of context. Usually what we mean by taking a verse ‘out of context’ is using a single verse in such a way that its meaning is misappropriated without its preceding and following verses in mind. This is the bad, and unfortunately common, way. But there is another way of using verses ‘out of context’ that yet allows you to remain context-friendly. This would be using a single verse in such a way that its true contextual meaning is not violated without considering its preceding and following verses. Indeed, we do this all the time. It is the latter I believe I am doing—for it remains true, given what the verse said (apart from its context), that God has answered prayer before his people called upon him. It was that truth I was trying to extract from Is. 65:24. Now it would be out of context in the former sense if that truth didn’t remain once we consider the context you reminded me of. But it does, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Penrod</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/378/comment-page-1#comment-7721</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Penrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 02:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Chad,

Isaiah 65:24 is in the context of the "new heavens and a new earth" that will be created by God.

This not to say that you are wrong in your post, just that the particular passage you used to support your thinking is taken out of context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad,</p>
<p>Isaiah 65:24 is in the context of the &#8220;new heavens and a new earth&#8221; that will be created by God.</p>
<p>This not to say that you are wrong in your post, just that the particular passage you used to support your thinking is taken out of context.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/378/comment-page-1#comment-7139</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchvoices.com/archives/378#comment-7139</guid>
		<description>Agreed--which is one of the main reasons I could never confidently pray to the God of process theology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed&#8211;which is one of the main reasons I could never confidently pray to the God of process theology.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Walker</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/378/comment-page-1#comment-7065</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchvoices.com/archives/378#comment-7065</guid>
		<description>Your youth minister is a goober.  Seriously though, good thinking.  I was struck when reading this, about how often all that we discuss with God is based on our ignorance (lack of omniscience concerning both material reality and how he relates to it).  While praying counter-factually doesn't make sense, our vision is such that even when we have a "fact" there are probably thousands of ways that God could use said fact outside of and beyond our understanding.  One always has the prayer of the Lord, "Your will be done."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your youth minister is a goober.  Seriously though, good thinking.  I was struck when reading this, about how often all that we discuss with God is based on our ignorance (lack of omniscience concerning both material reality and how he relates to it).  While praying counter-factually doesn&#8217;t make sense, our vision is such that even when we have a &#8220;fact&#8221; there are probably thousands of ways that God could use said fact outside of and beyond our understanding.  One always has the prayer of the Lord, &#8220;Your will be done.&#8221;</p>
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