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	<title>Comments on: Art, Money, and Neurons</title>
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	<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/395</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tim Reed</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/395/comment-page-1#comment-7836</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 18:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchvoices.com/archives/395#comment-7836</guid>
		<description>I think you'll find there's not much pushing of a program here because I don't push a program.  At most I'm critical of individuals who try to push their agenda into areas that aren't part of their ministries.  I understand that my philosophy of ministry isn't yours, or Dan Burrell's or many other people out there.  But I don't claim the scriptures demand you accept it either.  On the other hand you've got guys like Ken Silva and (to a much, much, much lesser extent) Dan Burrell who demand that other ministries accept their type of ministry in areas where the scriptures leave freedom.  And I will write and I will be critical in those cases.

I admit I do get angry when the scriptures are abused.  And that's exactly what happens when someone uses the scriptures to show that a particular type of music, or a certain way of doing things (that are left undefined by scripture) is demanded by God.  That is an abuse of scripture that is no different than someone who re-defines scripture to justify their own preferred sin.  

SOmetimes I do go overboard (although the article you're referring to where I called the folks at Slice of Laodicea jerk holes is not one of them), &lt;a href=http://churchvoices.com/archives/380 rel="nofollow"&gt;and I try to correct that when I realize I've done it&lt;/a&gt;.  If you go back into the archives you'll see I used to pick up my flame thrower a lot more often and used it with a great deal more intensity.  

I appreciate your concern, and thank you for the gentle way you presented it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;ll find there&#8217;s not much pushing of a program here because I don&#8217;t push a program.  At most I&#8217;m critical of individuals who try to push their agenda into areas that aren&#8217;t part of their ministries.  I understand that my philosophy of ministry isn&#8217;t yours, or Dan Burrell&#8217;s or many other people out there.  But I don&#8217;t claim the scriptures demand you accept it either.  On the other hand you&#8217;ve got guys like Ken Silva and (to a much, much, much lesser extent) Dan Burrell who demand that other ministries accept their type of ministry in areas where the scriptures leave freedom.  And I will write and I will be critical in those cases.</p>
<p>I admit I do get angry when the scriptures are abused.  And that&#8217;s exactly what happens when someone uses the scriptures to show that a particular type of music, or a certain way of doing things (that are left undefined by scripture) is demanded by God.  That is an abuse of scripture that is no different than someone who re-defines scripture to justify their own preferred sin.  </p>
<p>SOmetimes I do go overboard (although the article you&#8217;re referring to where I called the folks at Slice of Laodicea jerk holes is not one of them), <a href=http://churchvoices.com/archives/380 rel="nofollow">and I try to correct that when I realize I&#8217;ve done it</a>.  If you go back into the archives you&#8217;ll see I used to pick up my flame thrower a lot more often and used it with a great deal more intensity.  </p>
<p>I appreciate your concern, and thank you for the gentle way you presented it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rev. James Rosselli</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/395/comment-page-1#comment-7835</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. James Rosselli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 17:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchvoices.com/archives/395#comment-7835</guid>
		<description>I stumbled across your blog a while ago,
and just revisited it. 

It sounds sort of angry, and impatient with people who don't want to go along with its preogram, although what that program is, is unclear.

I read a lot about money and "my rights" and "my way" and arguments from the perspective of "What People Want." But where is Jesus in this? The Bible calls us to follow Christ, to become less so he can become more, to lift each other upo and edify each other with goodly speech, woth psalms and spiritual songs. It tells us to
honor our elders in the Faith, not to make
jokes about their perceived lack of bladder control.

Sucks? Jerkholes? 

If this is the "church speaking," perhaps
we should spend less time speaking, and a
bit more time listening to God.

I understand you're trying to reach a certain culture. Its members, however,
are still made in the Image of God, and 
carry Him around inside them in the Person of the Holy Spirit. They, and you, and I, are called to the same standard which has been present for two thousand years. "This is my way of doing things" defines nothing more in relation to this than that it may or may not be His Way of doing things.

Zeal is good. Fire is good. But things,
as God tells us, need to be done decently and in order.

If this is how the people you serve  talk, and you would
do the work of Christ, don't pander to the dxegradation tney've brought in from a world that thinks we're all just modified
monkeys, and speaks to us accordingly. Be an example of something higher.

in Christ,

Fr. Jim </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stumbled across your blog a while ago,<br />
and just revisited it. </p>
<p>It sounds sort of angry, and impatient with people who don&#8217;t want to go along with its preogram, although what that program is, is unclear.</p>
<p>I read a lot about money and &#8220;my rights&#8221; and &#8220;my way&#8221; and arguments from the perspective of &#8220;What People Want.&#8221; But where is Jesus in this? The Bible calls us to follow Christ, to become less so he can become more, to lift each other upo and edify each other with goodly speech, woth psalms and spiritual songs. It tells us to<br />
honor our elders in the Faith, not to make<br />
jokes about their perceived lack of bladder control.</p>
<p>Sucks? Jerkholes? </p>
<p>If this is the &#8220;church speaking,&#8221; perhaps<br />
we should spend less time speaking, and a<br />
bit more time listening to God.</p>
<p>I understand you&#8217;re trying to reach a certain culture. Its members, however,<br />
are still made in the Image of God, and<br />
carry Him around inside them in the Person of the Holy Spirit. They, and you, and I, are called to the same standard which has been present for two thousand years. &#8220;This is my way of doing things&#8221; defines nothing more in relation to this than that it may or may not be His Way of doing things.</p>
<p>Zeal is good. Fire is good. But things,<br />
as God tells us, need to be done decently and in order.</p>
<p>If this is how the people you serve  talk, and you would<br />
do the work of Christ, don&#8217;t pander to the dxegradation tney&#8217;ve brought in from a world that thinks we&#8217;re all just modified<br />
monkeys, and speaks to us accordingly. Be an example of something higher.</p>
<p>in Christ,</p>
<p>Fr. Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Reed</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/395/comment-page-1#comment-7807</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 03:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchvoices.com/archives/395#comment-7807</guid>
		<description>Josh,
THere is some truth to what you say, however, the reason that you're so on target is because of your definition of hymn.  Most people define hymn strictly in stylistic terms.  So, when the church across town did a hymn only service but performed them on guitars, and a flute they heard complaints about not playing enough hymns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh,<br />
THere is some truth to what you say, however, the reason that you&#8217;re so on target is because of your definition of hymn.  Most people define hymn strictly in stylistic terms.  So, when the church across town did a hymn only service but performed them on guitars, and a flute they heard complaints about not playing enough hymns.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh S</title>
		<link>http://churchvoices.com/archives/395/comment-page-1#comment-7804</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 13:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://churchvoices.com/archives/395#comment-7804</guid>
		<description>It is a bit silly to critize the mere existence of profit.  More than a few of the hymns in the new Lutheran Service Book are copyrighted--even if thought many of the hymns are 400 years old or more, the translations and settings are often new.  Artists do indeed get paid for their work.

I think the difference with contemporary Christian music is that it's a hit-driven industry, which means it pursues novelty first and foremost.  When a song will be out of rotation within 5 years anyway, why bother examining it?  By contrast, denominational publishing houses take care to maintain their theological identity and produce hymnals that will be useful for several decades.

The other problem, as I see it, is the CCM industry is extra-ecclesial.  The Lutheran Service Book couldn't get published until it passed doctrinal certification.  I doubt the folks publishing the CCM megahits could care two cents about doctrinal review.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a bit silly to critize the mere existence of profit.  More than a few of the hymns in the new Lutheran Service Book are copyrighted&#8211;even if thought many of the hymns are 400 years old or more, the translations and settings are often new.  Artists do indeed get paid for their work.</p>
<p>I think the difference with contemporary Christian music is that it&#8217;s a hit-driven industry, which means it pursues novelty first and foremost.  When a song will be out of rotation within 5 years anyway, why bother examining it?  By contrast, denominational publishing houses take care to maintain their theological identity and produce hymnals that will be useful for several decades.</p>
<p>The other problem, as I see it, is the CCM industry is extra-ecclesial.  The Lutheran Service Book couldn&#8217;t get published until it passed doctrinal certification.  I doubt the folks publishing the CCM megahits could care two cents about doctrinal review.</p>
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